i know that some people on the board have experience of being mormons, so i would be interested in your feedback.
at church this afternoon it was an uncanny experience.
in the past i've read a lot about mormons, so i thought i was prepared in general for what it would be like.
Slim " I don't believe all the doctrines"
The Rebel. I am sure this won't be a problem, provided you consider it a blessing to have the opportunity of donating 10% of your income to the church?
The Mormon Church: " Rebel, please remember that the lord isn't asking for 10% but he is giving us 90% and then blessings on top"
The Rebel." Ok that explains it"
i realize now my father i believe had " aspergers" " ( although not diagnosed) .
our parents are who they are, and i do not hate my patents for being who they are, on the contary i appreciate how they love me in their own way.
but growing up with strict witness parents and a father who i now believe has " asperges"" wasn't easy, .
I realize now my father I believe had " aspergers" " ( although not diagnosed)
Our parents are who they are, and I do not hate my mum & dad for being who they are, on the contary I appreciate how they love me in their own way. But growing up with strict witness parents and a father who I now believe has " asperges"" wasn't easy,
Anyway I am glad I am now loving my life, but the point I want to make is I love my wife and I love my son of 11, and I realize we each as individuals, have so many imperfections. Today I have realized my dad had many problems that " faked" my life up, but he is my dad and I am sure he is a nice guy,
The really important point I am trying to make is, that the relationship between parents and children can have great love and horrible pain, but I won't let my parents down and say I don't love them. It has just taken a lot of time for me to realize a dad may have problems with love that I never understood.
On a positive I have put my " Witness" upbringing behind me, I understand my parents inability to show love and I always tell my boy and wife I love them before we go to bed, and my boy still kisses me goodnight and says he loves me before he goes to sleep.
The Rebel.
before england announce the two squad members that won't go in to the euros, i say leave out wiltshire ( not fully match fit) and sturrige,( the most over rated striker ever) however social media disagrees and says drinkwater, lacks quality and rashford experience so leave them out.
other experts think varidys pace irrelevant at this level.
my conclusion it's all opinions and roy hodgson wont base his decision on my opinion nor social medias.
That's an Interesting post Simon. Please give me a few days to digest the contents.
Anyway what I am trying to say is the person who only has the sporting instinct, the person who loves only sport, probably does less damage to society than the politicians and economists, even the religiouse leaders. He certainly does less harm than the people who really control our thinking, the " Advertisers"
Having left the W.T, and mixing in the " world" free-speech really interests me. I have learnt I can get a free-beer in any pub listing to " free-speech" but the beer to be enjoyed needs to agree with the " free-speech" of the guy who bought me the beer.
It would be remiss of me not to say " Thanks" for allowing my opinion be heard, even when we don't agree.
The Rebel.
before england announce the two squad members that won't go in to the euros, i say leave out wiltshire ( not fully match fit) and sturrige,( the most over rated striker ever) however social media disagrees and says drinkwater, lacks quality and rashford experience so leave them out.
other experts think varidys pace irrelevant at this level.
my conclusion it's all opinions and roy hodgson wont base his decision on my opinion nor social medias.
My point about free-speech and sport is:-
1:- I have attended many football matches where bananas were thrown at black players, and racial songs chanted. This sort of free speech should be banned, yet sadly it still happens.
2) Muhammad Ali ( who sadly passed away yesterday) stated his Muslim beliefs prohibited him serving in the Vietnam war, so the " World Boxing Association" suspended him and revolked his world championship title.
3) In the World Cup " FINAL" Zidane got red carded for head butting an opponent. Why did he head butt the opponent ? The tactics of the opposing team were to say to him during the "game" the most disrespectful insults about his sister, until he reacted.
Those are 3 instances of many I could name, in which free-speech and sport in my opinion don't mix:-
So it comes down to balance. Personally I think it is ok for me to say "Rooney should be dropped based on performance and statistics" but I do not think it ok for me to say " He should be dropped because he is a "FAT SLOB"with "MENTAL" problems. In my opinion such name calling is as pathetic as the throwing of bananas at black players.
The Rebel.
p.s. I agree with Ali, on point 2, however the point clearly proves even the U.S.A has restrictions on freedom of expression.
before england announce the two squad members that won't go in to the euros, i say leave out wiltshire ( not fully match fit) and sturrige,( the most over rated striker ever) however social media disagrees and says drinkwater, lacks quality and rashford experience so leave them out.
other experts think varidys pace irrelevant at this level.
my conclusion it's all opinions and roy hodgson wont base his decision on my opinion nor social medias.
OrphanCrow, I will answer your point " How does a discussion about sports teams fall under freedom of speech protection" at the end of my thread.
LoveUnHateExams, another reason why we won the World Cup in 1966.
Jack Charlton to Alf Ramsy, the England manager " Why did you pick me"
Alf Ramsey " Jack I don't pick the best players I pick the best team"
So we won the World Cup because we had Alf Ramsey a manager who had the guts not to pick the best players, but players like " Jack Charlton" and " Nobby Stiles". It should be noted Jack Charlton was 30 when he got his first cap, and Nobby Stiles was called an animal by the daily press and a public opinion poll saying he was an embarrassment to our national team. Furthermore Alf Ramsey picked against public opinion kids like Alan Ball ( my hero) and Martin Peters. As for the final Ramsey, dropped the nations hero Jimmy Greaves, and gave Geoff Hurst the number 10 shirt. ( Hurst got a hat-trick, Peters the other goal and Alan Ball was the people's man of the match)
Sir Alf Ramsey " We won the World Cup, because I didn't pick the best players, I created and picked the best team"
Come on Roy...Ali not Rooney in central midfield, Kane up front not Rooney. Who would be England manager and have the guts to drop our captain " Rooney?" Sir Alf Ramsey would, ask Jimmy Greaves.
The Rebel.
OrphanCrow, freedom of speech and questioning your National football team is forbidden in many lands. A teenage girl was so distressed her African National team lost a game against the countries rivals, she shot herself in the head. The country gave her a state funeral. What does that have to do with freedom of speech? Well I think it's ridiculous that in her country I would not be allowed the "freedom of speech" to voice my opinion her suicide was stupid,and football is only a game.
The Rebel
before england announce the two squad members that won't go in to the euros, i say leave out wiltshire ( not fully match fit) and sturrige,( the most over rated striker ever) however social media disagrees and says drinkwater, lacks quality and rashford experience so leave them out.
other experts think varidys pace irrelevant at this level.
my conclusion it's all opinions and roy hodgson wont base his decision on my opinion nor social medias.
Well konceptual99, I agree with you, I can only assume Roy Hodgson the England Manager, is a secret Jehovers Witness. I say this because Its interesting to note Jack Wiltsure has the initials of .J.W . I also noted the effect a player converting to a religion has on a team . I say this as a Watford supporter, having noted at the beginning of the season our main sticker " Deeney" seemed to have converted to the " Seventh day Adventist" faith, he then amazingly seemed to convert the whole team, with such success that not one of them " worked" on Saturday since Boxing Day. If it wasn't for mid-week games we would have been relegated.
The Rebel.
before england announce the two squad members that won't go in to the euros, i say leave out wiltshire ( not fully match fit) and sturrige,( the most over rated striker ever) however social media disagrees and says drinkwater, lacks quality and rashford experience so leave them out.
other experts think varidys pace irrelevant at this level.
my conclusion it's all opinions and roy hodgson wont base his decision on my opinion nor social medias.
Before England announce the two squad members that won't go in to the Euros, I say leave out Wiltshire ( not fully match fit) and Sturrige. (The most over rated striker ever) However Social media disagrees and says Drinkwater, lacks quality and Rashford experience so leave them out. Other EXPERTS think Varidys pace irrelevant at this level. My conclusion It's all opinions and Roy Hodgson wont base his decision on my opinion nor social medias. That being said, it's kind of fun being a football fun, with free-speech, and suggesting the two players Roy must drop from the squad today.
However I think it takes a more meaningful type of free-speech and soul -searching to question our faith. This is why we are here. We valued our free-speech, held it to the light and saw the "watchtower" interpretation of " free-speech" was in our opinion wrong. Having concluded we were conned to trust in the " W.T" version of " free-speech" we rebelled, and by doing so many we lost our friends our faith, and all we held important.
But we did so because we believed in our thinking.
Was it justified?
Was it worth the price?
I think it is.
But only if it allows us to continue questioning that we may have been wrong. We should never stop challenging our thinking. We should always question why we believe what we believe? And we should always be open to being wrong.
Anyway I believe the two players, Roy needs drop are Wiltshire, & Sturridge.However if Roy doesn't agree with me, and Wilture and Sturridge score the winning goals in the final, I was wrong and Roy Hodgson the England manger was right. I bloody hope so. England havnt won a major tournament in my life time, infact Engaland havnt won a major tournament since 1966.
Ok England fans, let's hope my expertise is not valued, and Roy knows best.
The Rebel.
attending my boys parents evening it was mentiond they were to study the " diary of anne frank".
( he is 10 years old) i pointed out to the teacher that having read the book, in my option the book was not written entirely by anne frank, and i would educate my boy on why i believe this to be so.. in my mind this was a totally reasonable responce by me, but it has resulted in the head-master of the school wanting to meet with me.
i think it wrong that an educational system will i suspect meet with me and presumably suggest my options on the " anne frank diary" constitute hate speech, as nothing could be further from the truth.. freedom of speech is never absolute, but at what point do you think it reasonable and justified?
Well we differ on this subject Simon but before I end my drivel, let me say I admire you for helping so many out of the W.T hell. I hope we can agree on that:-) Thanks for allowing my contribution over the months.
Mike.
attending my boys parents evening it was mentiond they were to study the " diary of anne frank".
( he is 10 years old) i pointed out to the teacher that having read the book, in my option the book was not written entirely by anne frank, and i would educate my boy on why i believe this to be so.. in my mind this was a totally reasonable responce by me, but it has resulted in the head-master of the school wanting to meet with me.
i think it wrong that an educational system will i suspect meet with me and presumably suggest my options on the " anne frank diary" constitute hate speech, as nothing could be further from the truth.. freedom of speech is never absolute, but at what point do you think it reasonable and justified?
To answer your question " Caedes" my issue of freedom of speech is on authorship. To clarify who wrote the bible, God or man? If Anne Frank wrote the " diary of Anne Frank" she should be credited as author not co-author. If Otto Frank is credited as a co-author who is giving power to nazi sympathisers?
The Rebel.
attending my boys parents evening it was mentiond they were to study the " diary of anne frank".
( he is 10 years old) i pointed out to the teacher that having read the book, in my option the book was not written entirely by anne frank, and i would educate my boy on why i believe this to be so.. in my mind this was a totally reasonable responce by me, but it has resulted in the head-master of the school wanting to meet with me.
i think it wrong that an educational system will i suspect meet with me and presumably suggest my options on the " anne frank diary" constitute hate speech, as nothing could be further from the truth.. freedom of speech is never absolute, but at what point do you think it reasonable and justified?
Simon thank you for the post. Yes you are correct I raised this post to challenge my thinking on free speech. The only thing you are incorrect with is I was sure this O.P would not be closed down. To clarify before I started my O.P I researched the forum history and noted many years ago a similar O.P was started, with most posters agreeing the diary was a fraud. However that O.P did not create a discussion from those that belived the diary genuine. I genuinely believe this forum is better than that, that an O.P should create debates and challenge our thinking. That was my intention,
Now for my conclusion to the O.P.
In my honest opinion:-
A) I believe if the diary of Anne Frank is to be " credited" with Otto Frank as co-author, it will in the future ( even today) correctly raise questions about the authenticity of the diary.
B) If the Anne Frank foundation is to be allowed that free-speech and to say Otto Frank is co-author then it means we should follow the argument through and that means they are saying we have been lied to for years and that the book was in-fact co-written by Otto Frank.
C) If we don't agree that " Otto Frank" is co-author, then one of the most important books ever written,should have voices to challenge this because:-
D) If such ( silent) free-speech allowes another persons diary, thoughts, views and opinions be credited to another author, I say so much for free-speech. Do you agree?
Now back to my O.P, my boy of 10 is being taught at school about the Anne Frank diary, to me this means he is being taught about History, and either the words of Anne Frank inspired history, inspired millions or it was bullshit. If it was bullshit I don't think it should be taught, if it was true then Anne should be credited with the work.
This is why I make an issue of the book authorship.
The Rebel.
p.s apologies in advance for the poor spelling:-(
